From carson@siggraph.org Wed Feb 12 18:19:34 1997 Received: from siggraph.cgrg.ohio-state.edu (siggraph.cgrg.ohio-state.edu [128.146.18.100]) by dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA26941 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:19:29 +0100 Received: from default (carson@siggraph.org) by siggraph.cgrg.ohio-state.edu (8.8.5/941010.52) with SMTP id MAA12147 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:19:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970212102033.00726984@siggraph.cgrg.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: carson@siggraph.cgrg.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:20:46 -0700 To: SC24@dkuug.dk From: Steve Carson Subject: SC22 Java Study Group Draft Recommendations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am continuing to monitor and participate in the activities of SC22's Study Group on Java Technologies. Below you will find their preliminary recommendations. Please look them over and give me your feedback. I am particularly concerned with Point 1 which says that all Java related activities should be done in one place in SC22. The obvious corollary to this is that SC22 is that place, since the language work (if it goes into JTC1 at all) will be done there. I believe that SC24 has a strong interest in seeing any possible ISO JTC1 work in areas of Java technology such as 2D and 3D graphics, windowing and media -- be done within SC24. Lets have some discussion on this reflector of whether you agree of disagree with this so I can know if I should jump in and fight with SC22 for this; whether SC24 should fight at the JTC1 level; or whether SC24 NBs are happy to see all Java Technology standardized in SC22. - - - Point 1 - All work in one group All ISO work on the Java programming language, the Java virtual machine, related Java class libraries and add-ons (whether part of the core language or not), all work on JavaScript (or ECMA Script), and all work on other programming technologies for enhanced networked applications (particularly applications intended for the Internet or World Wide Web) should be coordinated through a single group below the level of JTC1. [Even though I just said it, I don't think this would work in the current JTC1 structure. I'm not sure that a new SubCommittee would be appropriate. I don't know what JTC1 is thinking about in their reengineering and reorganization discussions. Such a group might be too big. I'm pretty sure that a Working Group under SC22 is not appropriate either. I don't know of any cross SubCommittee Working Groups. [If all this group had initially were Java and JVM (as primary work) and being the placeholder for ECMA's JavaScript standard, then one group in SC22 would be appropriate and probably generally acceptable. Adding AWT, JDBC, Beans, etc. is what would make the scope questionable within SC22. [The other side of the problem is illustrated by a technology like ANDF which might be a candidate for international standardization, but which has not generated much (positive) interest in this study group. A single committee should probably have those topics as well. [Even though I think a single group is appropriate for coordination, I don't know how we could make it work. But without such coordination however, I'm afraid the standards process will become bogged down in bureaucracy and liaisons that follow all the rules, consider alternatives, and miss satisfying the needs of the industry and users. [I think we need an answer along these lines, but I talk myself out of every suggestion I come up with. Point 2 - We're waiting on Sun to make a decision The technology everybody wants is currently proprietary to Sun Microsystems, Inc. and their JavaSoft subsidiary. There is no point in trying to standardize an alternative approach. There is no point in ISO beginning any work beyond this study group until Sun releases the technology for the purpose of standardization. Sun may decide to work directly with ISO or may bring the technology into another standards group first. In either case, ISO should be prepared to work on this technology. Point 3 - The first standard version should closely match existing technology There is already an extremely large base of users of Java, JavaScript, and related technologies. There are also slight differences in implementation and use. The initial Java-related standards should closely match existing practice. No new features or extensions should be considered. The text should be kept as close as possible to the existing Sun documentation. The only variances allowed should be to resolve ambiguities and differences between implementations (and even here this should be done in the most conservative way possible). This should be explicit in the Work Item description and in the management of the working group. At our meeting in Cupertino, there was a strong sentiment that in the first phase of standardization, the chair of the working group should be encouraged to rule suggestions for change out of order and the group should require a significant majority of countries represented to override such a ruling. Point 4 - Java Virtual Machine and Java Programming Language first Standardization of the Java Virtual Machine (JVM) and Java Programming Language (usually what is meant by Java alone) is the first priority. They should be done as separate standards, but processed together. Some classes must be made a part of the language definition and others done in separate standard(s). This is a matter for the standardization working group to decide. Java and the JVM are closely linked. Other languages might be compiled to the JVM and other targets might be used with Java language processors, but the two are linked in common purposes and use. Both these seemed to be sufficiently "cooked" to be moved forward rapidly at this time. Steve Carson Chair, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC24 Computer Graphics and Image Processing --------------------------------------------------------- Steve Carson phone: +1-505-521-7399 GSC Associates Inc. fax: +1-505-521-9321 5272 Redman Road e-mail: carson@siggraph.org Las Cruces, NM 88011 USA ---------------------------------------------------------