From owner-sc22docs@open-std.org Thu Jun 9 17:48:23 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22docs-domo Delivered-To: sc22docs-domo@open-std.org Received: by open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 55E9013AB6; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:48:23 +0200 (CET DST) X-Original-To: sc22info@open-std.org Delivered-To: sc22docs@open-std.org Received: from email1.ansi.org (outbound.ansi.org [12.15.192.5]) by open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978A91142E for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:48:19 +0200 (CET DST) Received: by rpb2.nycrnybb.ispnetinc.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:45:13 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sally Seitz To: sc22info@open-std.org Subject: N 3912-German Comments on N 3872, Registration and Approval Lette r Ballot for ISO/IEC PDTR 24716, Information technology-Programming langu ages, their environment and system software interfaces-Native COBOL Synta x for XML Support Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:45:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C56D0A.3887EDA0" Sender: owner-sc22docs@open-std.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C56D0A.3887EDA0 Content-Type: text/plain ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 Programming languages, their environments and system software interfaces Secretariat: U.S.A. (ANSI) ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 N3912 TITLE: German Comments on N 3872, Registration and Approval Letter Ballot for ISO/IEC PDTR 24716, Information technology-Programming languages, their environment and system software interfaces-Native COBOL Syntax for XML Support DATE ASSIGNED: 2005-006-09 SOURCE: SC 22 Secretariat BACKWARD POINTER: DOCUMENT TYPE: National Body Comments PROJECT NUMBER: STATUS: These additional comments received from the UK are sent to SC 22/WG 4 for consideration when resolving the comments contained in SC 22 N 3908. ACTION IDENTIFIER: ACT DUE DATE: DISTRIBUTION: TEXT CROSS REFERENCE: SC 22 N 3872, N3908 DISTRIBUTION FORM: Def Address reply to: ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 Secretariat Sally Seitz ANSI 25 West 43rd Street New York, NY 10036 Telephone: (212) 642-4918 Fax: (212) 840-2298 Email: sseitz@ansi.org ______________end of cover sheet, beginning of document__________ German Comment on N3872 The purpose of this proposal is to define a COBOL interface to an existing "language" defined in an external standard or quasi-standard. The approach taken is highly dependent on the stability and reliability of this external documentation, in this case "W3C recommendations". Such a dependency is extremely risky, because the reference can change at any time, and maybe eventually overridden by a completely new paradigm. It must be noted that this is not (yet?) even an ISO standard. The proposed extensions and modifications of the COBOL language are quite pervasive and will add to the complexity, volatility, and size of the language and thus negatively affect the acceptance of the COBOL language. This proposal reminds of at least two similar attempts to adopt externally defined technologies: - The COBOL Codasyl Database support, which never was accepted by the industry and was eventually superseded by SQL. The approach taken by SQL, an "imbedded language" interface, which has only a minimal impact on the COBOL language itself, has been extremely successful and turned out as the de-facto database standard. J4 has never sufficiently verified, whether a similar approach might have been feasible for XML just as well. - The COBOL Communication module, which also never took off, mainly because it failed to address transaction based communication. Interestingly, there is a very successful alternative, at least on IBM mainframes, the CICS system, which also uses an embedded language interface for COBOL. We are concerned that this proposal may have a similar fate as the above examples. We should thoroughly monitor the acceptance of this TR and not exclude the possibility of a failure. Sally Seitz Program Manager ANSI 25 West 43rd Street New York, NY 10036 Phone: (212) 642-4918 Fax: (212) 840-2298 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C56D0A.3887EDA0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

ISO/IEC JTC = 1/SC22

Programming languages, their environments = and system software interfaces

Secretariat:  U.S.A.  = (ANSI)

 

ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 = N3912

 

TITLE:

German Comments on N 3872, Registration and = Approval Letter Ballot for ISO/IEC PDTR 24716, Information = technology-Programming languages, their environment and system software interfaces-Native COBOL Syntax = for XML Support

 

 

DATE ASSIGNED:

2005-006-09

 

SOURCE:

SC 22 Secretariat =

 

BACKWARD = POINTER:

 

DOCUMENT TYPE:

National Body = Comments

 

PROJECT NUMBER:

 

STATUS: 

These additional comments received from the = UK are sent to SC 22/WG 4 for consideration when resolving the comments = contained in SC 22 N 3908.

 

 

ACTION = IDENTIFIER:

ACT

 

DUE DATE:

 

DISTRIBUTION:

TEXT

 

CROSS = REFERENCE:

SC 22 N 3872, = N3908

 

DISTRIBUTION = FORM:

Def

 

Address reply = to:

ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 = Secretariat

Sally = Seitz

ANSI

25 West 43rd = Street

New = York, NY  10036

Telephone:  (212) = 642-4918

Fax:          &n= bsp;  (212) 840-2298

Email:  sseitz@ansi.org =

 

______________end of cover sheet, beginning of = document__________

 

German Comment on N3872

The purpose of this proposal is to define a COBOL interface to = an existing "language" defined in an external standard or quasi-standard. The approach taken is highly dependent on the stability = and reliability of this external documentation, in this case "W3C recommendations". Such a dependency is extremely risky, because = the reference can change at any time, and maybe eventually overridden by a completely new paradigm. It must be noted that this is not (yet?) even = an ISO standard. The proposed  extensions and modifications of the COBOL language = are quite pervasive and will add to the complexity, volatility, and size of the = language and thus negatively affect the acceptance of the COBOL = language.

This proposal reminds of at least two similar attempts to adopt externally defined technologies:

-          The COBOL Codasyl Database support, which = never was accepted by the industry and was eventually superseded by SQL. The = approach taken by SQL, an  "imbedded language" interface, which = has only a minimal impact on the COBOL language itself, has been extremely successful and = turned out as the de-facto database standard. J4 has never sufficiently = verified, whether a similar approach might have been feasible for XML just as = well.

-          The COBOL Communication module, which also = never took off, mainly because it failed to address transaction based = communication. Interestingly, there is a very successful alternative, at least on IBM mainframes, the CICS system, which also uses an embedded language = interface for COBOL.

We are concerned that this proposal may have a similar fate as = the above examples. We should thoroughly monitor the acceptance of this TR = and not exclude the possibility of a failure.

 

 

Sally = Seitz

Program = Manager

ANSI

25 = West 43rd Street

New = York, NY 10036<= /p>

Phone: (212) 642-4918

Fax: (212) 840-2298

 

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