Subject: SC 22 N 3299 - Summary of Voting on SC 22 N 3234, Letter Ballot f or ISO/IEC PDTR 14766 - Guide for POSIX National Profiles and National Lo cales

From: Matthew Deane <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:09:14 -0400

ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22
Programming languages, their environments and system software interfaces
Secretariat:  U.S.A.  (ANSI)
 
ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 N3299
 
TITLE:
Summary of Voting on SC 22 N 3234, Letter Ballot for ISO/IEC PDTR 14766 -
Guide for POSIX National Profiles and National Locales

DATE ASSIGNED:
2001-08-28
 
SOURCE:
SC 22 Secretariat

BACKWARD POINTER:
N/A
 
DOCUMENT TYPE:
Summary of Voting

PROJECT NUMBER:
22.14766
 
STATUS:
The results of this ballot are forwarded to SC 22/WG 15 for review,
production of a disposition of comments report, and recommendation on
further progress of the project.

ACTION IDENTIFIER:
ACT
 
DUE DATE:
  
DISTRIBUTION:
Text

CROSS REFERENCE:
SC 22 N 3234

DISTRIBUTION FORM:
Def
 
Address reply to:
ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 Secretariat
Matt Deane
ANSI
25 West 43rd Street
New York, NY  10036
Telephone:  (212) 642-4992
Fax:             (212) 840-2298
Email:  [email-masked]

_______end of cover page, beginning of summary____________

SUMMARY OF VOTING ON

Letter Ballot Reference No:  SC22 N3234
Circulated by:               JTC 1/SC22
Circulation Date:            2001-05-15
Closing Date:                2001-08-15

SUBJECT:  Summary of Voting on SC 22 N 3234, Letter Ballot for ISO/IEC PDTR
14766 - Guide for POSIX National Profiles and National Locales
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The following responses have been received on the subject of approval:

"P" Members supporting approval without comment                   

8 (Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Ireland, Republic of Korea, Norway,
Russian Federation, United Kingdom)

"P" Members supporting approval with comments              

1 (Netherlands)        

"P" Members not supporting approval       

2 (Canada, United States)

"P" Members abstaining                    

1 (France)

"P" Members not voting                    

9 (Austria, Belgium, Brazil, China, Egypt, Finland, Japan, Romania, Ukraine)

___________ end of summary, beginning on NB comments _____________

Canada

@	Page 0		technical

Problem:

Documents are normally copyrighted by someone or even jointly by two
someones, but two organizations cannot each claim separate and conflicting
copyrights.

Action:

Refer to ISO/IEC and IEEE IPR staff for resolution.
-- 

@	Page iv		technical

Problem:

The title is "Guidelines for POSIX National Profiles and National Locales".
The second paragraph omits the second "National" in both sentences.

Action:

Insert the word "National" (capitalized in the first instance, not
capitalized in the second) before the word "Locales" in both sentences.
-- 

@	Page v		technical

Problem:

Italicised text within square brackets has been used as a placeholder for
missing text (two occurrences).

Action:

Replace the text within square brackets and the square brackets with the
actual material to be inserted (two occurrences).
-- 

@	Page 1	Section 1.1 Scope	editorial

Problem:

In both the first and second paragraphs, the verb "to make" is used with the
object "POSIX National Profiles and National Locales".  To make implies the
manufacture of a good. The verb "to develop" would be more appropriate and
consistent with the Introduction on page iv.

Action:

Change "making" in paragraphs one and two to "developing".
-- 

@	Page 1	Section 1.1 Scope	technical

Problem:

The third paragraph references a "POSIX locale format" yet this format is
undefined.  On Page 5, the phrase "POSIX localdef format" is used to
indicate the same thing.

Action:

Change the reference to be consistent and define the term in section 3.2.1.
-- 

@	Page 2	Section 2.1 References	technical

Problem:

A reference is cited to ISO 8601:1988.  ISO lists the current version as ISO
8601:2000.

Action:

Update the reference to the current version.
-- 

@	Page 2	Section 2.1 References	editorial

Problem:

The titles of ISO/IEC 10646-1:2000 and ISO/IEC 14651 differ from those
listed on the ISO web site.

Action:

Update title with the correct official text as required.
-- 

@	Page 2	Section 2.1 References	editorial

Problem:

In the reference to ISO/IEC 8859 the string " ..," is used to represent some
missing text.  The correct string to use is an ellipsis - " ...,".

Action:

Replace ".." with "...".
-- 

@	Page 3	Section 2.1 References	technical

Problem:

A reference is cited to ISO/IEC TR 14262:1995.  The correct reference is
believed to be 14252:1996.

Action:

Correct the reference as required.
-- 

@	Page 3	Section 2.1 References	technical

Problem:

No reference is included to ISO/IEC 14651:2001 Information technology -
International string ordering and comparison.

Action:

Add the reference.
-- 

@	Page 4	Section 3.1 Conventions	technical

Problem:

Text within square brackets has been used as a placeholder for the missing
paragraph describing the specific editorial and typographical conventions
used in the document.

Action:

Replace the text within square brackets and the square brackets with the
actual description.
-- 

@	Page 4	Section 3.2.1 Terms	editorial

Problem:

The definition of the term "Profile" includes a reference to 10000-1.  The
format of the reference is unclear.

Action:

Replace the text "(10000-1)" with "(TR 10000-1)".
-- 

@	Page 4	Section 3.2.1 Terms	technical

Problem:

The distinction between a "Profile", a "POSIX profile", and a "POSIX
National Profile" is not clear, particularly since "a profile" is defined
under both the heading "Profile" and "POSIX profile" and a "POSIX National
Profile" is then defined as a "POSIX profile".

Action:

Clarify the wording and the distinction among each of these terms.
-- 

@	Page 5	Section 3.2.1 Terms	technical

Problem:

The term "POSIX National Locale" is used with the definition of a "National
Locale".

Action:

Change the heading from "POSIX National Locale" to just "National Locale".
-- 

@	Page 5	Section 3.2.1 Terms	technical

Problem:

The phrase "National Standards Profile" is defined and given the acronym
NSP.  In the Acronyms and Abbreviations section, NSP is defined as a
National Standards Profile.  Nowhere else in the document is either the
phrase "National Standards Profile" or the acronym NSP used.  Therefore, it
was not necessary to define them.

Action:

Remove "National Standards Profile" from the Terms section and remove NSP
from the Acronyms and Abbreviations section.
-- 

@	Page 5	Section 3.2.1 Terms	technical

Problem:

The distinction between a "locale", a "POSIX locale", a "National Locale",
and a "POSIX National Locale" is not clear.

Action:

Clarify the wording and the distinction among each of these terms.
-- 

@	Page 6	Section 3.2.1 Terms	technical

Problem:

Text within square brackets has been used as a placeholder for the missing
definition of localdef.

Action:

Replace the text within square brackets and the square brackets with the
actual definition.
-- 

@	Page 6	Section 3.2.1 Terms	editorial

Problem:

The definition of the term "International Standardized Profile" includes a
reference to 10000-1.  The format of the reference is unclear.

Action:

Replace the text "(10000-1)" with "(TR 10000-1)".
-- 

@	Page 6	Section 3.2.2 Acronyms and Abbreviations	editorial

Problem:

Significant words in section titles should be capitalized, the word
"abbreviations" in the section title in not capitalized.

Action:

Capitalize the first letter A in the word abbreviations in the title.
-- 

@	Page 6	Section 3.2.2 Acronyms and Abbreviations	technical

Problem:

The acronym NSP is not used elsewhere in the document and should be removed.

Action:

Remove the acronym NSP and its definition.
-- 

@	Page 8	Section 5 Concept of National Profiles	editorial

Problem:

The word thus in the last sentence of the third paragraph of this section
should be set off from the rest of the sentence by a comma.

Action:

Change "Thus International Standardized Profiles" to "Thus, International
Standardized Profiles".
-- 

@	Page 9	Section 5 Concept of National Profiles	editorial

Problem:

The sentence "An application that requires not only specific POSIX related
parameters and options but also other ISO/IEC standards and their
international profiles." is poorly phrased.

Action:

Change to "An application that requires both specific POSIX related
parameters and options and other ISO/IEC standards and their international
profiles.
-- 

@	Page 10	Section 5.1 The relationship to base standards	technical

Problem:

On page 4, it is stated that this TR "contains no mandatory requirements".
Therefore the use of the verbs shall and must is inappropriate and should be
replaced by the verbs should and may.

Action:

In the third paragraph, replace the first shall with should and the second
shall with may.
-- 

@	Page 10	Section 5.2 The relationship to Registration Authority
technical

Problem:

Paragraph 2 references ISO/IEC DIS 15897, while section 2.1 References lists
ISO/IEC 15897:1999.

Action:

Update the reference on page 10.
-- 

@	Page 10	Section 5.2 The relationship to Registration Authority
technical

Problem:

Paragraph 2 states that 15897 "provides registration mechanisms for POSIX
profiles, POSIX locales", etc.  This TR is a guide to POSIX National
Profiles and National Locales.  It has been raised as an objection elsewhere
that there is substantial confusion of the terms "POSIX", "National",
"Profile" and "Locale" when used singly or in combination to refer to a
profile or a locale.

Action:

Define more specifically what 15897 is intended to provide a registration
mechanism for and how that relates to this TR.
-- 

@	Page 11	Section 5.2 The relationship to Registration Authority
editorial

Problem:

(b), (c), and (d) in the final paragraph of this section are indented
inappropriately.

Action:

Correct the indentation to match (a).
-- 

@	Page 11	Section 5.3.2 Principles of National Profile Content
technical

Problem:

In the second paragraph the verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 11	Section 5.3.3 Main elements of a National Profile definition
technical

Problem:

In the first paragraph the verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 13	Section 5.4 Conformance Testing	editorial

Problem:

The first sentence of the second paragraph beginning "The system is then
"exercised"" is poorly worded.

Action:

Replace the phrase "through the use of" with the word "using".
-- 

@	Page 13	Section 5.5 Conformance requirements of POSIX National
Profiles	technical

Problem:

In the second paragraph the verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 14	Section 5.5 Conformance requirements of POSIX National
Profiles	technical

Problem:

In the second paragraph the verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 14	Section 5.5 Conformance requirements of POSIX National
Profiles	editorial

Problem:

The second paragraph is poorly worded.

Action:

Replace the phrase "and also" with the word "and".
-- 

@	Page 14	Section 5.5 Conformance requirements of POSIX National
Profiles	technical

Problem:

In the third paragraph the verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 14	Section 5.6.1 General	technical

Problem:

In the third paragraph the verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 14	Section 5.6.2 Requirements	technical

Problem:

In the first paragraph the verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 15	Section 5.8 POSIX Application Conformance for National
Profiles	technical

Problem:

The verb shall is used twice.

Action:

Change shall to should (two instances).
-- 

@	Page 15	Section 5.8.1 <National Body> Conforming POSIX Application
technical

Problem:

The verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 15	Section 5.8.2 <National Body> Conforming POSIX Application
Using Extensions	technical

Problem:

The verb shall is used twice.

Action:

Change shall to should (two instances).
-- 

@	Page 16	Section 6 Contents of National Profile	editorial

Problem:

Section title does not read well.

Action:

Change title to "Contents of a POSIX National Profile".
-- 

@	Page 16	Section 6 Contents of National Profile	technical

Problem:

The verb shall is used 28 times and the verb must is used once.

Action:

Change every occurrence of shall to should and every occurrence of must to
may.
-- 

@	Page 16	Section 6 Contents of National Profile	technical

Problem:

Page 4 states that this TR "contains no mandatory requirements".  Yet, the
phrase "is mandatory" is used 18 times in this section.

Action:

Remove all mandatory requirements.
-- 

@	Page 16	Section 6 Contents of National Profile	editorial

Problem:

It is not clear why the numbering reverts to one within this section.

Action:

Adopt a more distinctive typographical convention to distinguish the
contents of a POSIX National Profile from the contents of this TR.  Boxing
Section 6 after the first paragraph so that it appears as a series of images
of pages is recommended.  Explain the change in section 3.1.
-- 

@	Page 16	Section 6 Contents of National Profile	technical

Problem:

The fourth last paragraph states "when an official registration mechanism is
established".  This conflicts with section 5.2 The relationship to
Registration Authority, which claims that such a mechanism has been
established.

Action:

Correct to resolve the conflict.
-- 

@	Page 18	Section 6 Contents of National Profile	editorial

Problem:

Section 7.4 Profile for OSI is followed by section 7.4 Media.

Action:

Renumber the second section 7.4 to 7.5.
-- 

@	Page 19	Section 7 Concept of POSIX National Locales	technical

Problem:

This is another instance of the confusion between National Locales and POSIX
National Locales.

Action:

Remove the word "POSIX" in the section title and the first sentence.
-- 

@	Page 19	Section 7 Concept of POSIX National Locales	editorial

Problem:

Comma usage.

Action:

Add a comma after "In this way" in the second sentence of the first
paragraph.
-- 

@	Page 19	Section 7 Concept of POSIX National Locales	technical

Problem:

ISO/IEC 9945-2 does not include a Norwegian locale.

Action:

Correct the reference.
-- 

@	Page 19	Section 8 Contents of National Locale	editorial

Problem:

Section title does not read well.

Action:

Change title to "Contents of a National Locale".
-- 

@	Page 19	Section 8 Contents of National Locale	technical

Problem:

The verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 19	Section 8.3 Monetary	technical

Problem:

The verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 20	Section 8.3 Monetary	technical

Problem:

The verb shall is used.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 20	Section 8.3 Monetary	editorial

Problem:

The phrase "the 4th character" is used incorrectly.

Action:

Change "4th" to "fourth".
-- 

@	Page 20	Section 8.4 Time	editorial

Problem:

In the second paragraph, a comma is missing after the second last item in
the list.

Action:

Add a comma after file listings.
-- 

@	Page 20	Section 8.5 collating	editorial

Problem:

In the first paragraph, Soundex is a proper noun and the verb transcripted
is used as an adjective.  In the second and third paragraphs, commas are
missing.

Action:

Capitalize the initial S in Soundex.  Place the word "transcripted" within
double quotes as illustrated.  Add a comma after the phrase "if two strings
are different" in the second paragraph and after the word "Instead" in the
second sentence of the third paragraph.
-- 

@	Page 21	Section 8.5 Collating	editorial

Problem:

In the second paragraph the phrases "the 4 level scheme" and "as the
Canadians do" are used inappropriately.

Action:

Spell out the word four in place of the digit 4 and replace "as the
Canadians do" with "as Canada does".
-- 

@	Page 21	Section 8.5 Collating	editorial

Problem:

The first letter of the Cyrillic alphabet is represented incorrectly in
English as the letter "a".

Action:

Change the letter a in the sequence "a be ve ghe" to "ah be ve ghe".
-- 

@	Page 21	Section 8.5 Collating	technical

Problem:

ISO/IEC FDIS 14651 is referenced (incorrectly) and is not included in
section 2.1 References.

Action:

Update the reference to ISO/IEC 14651:2001 and include a complete reference
in section 2.
-- 

@	Page 22	Section 9 Using locale templates	editorial

Problem:

In the last two paragraphs of the section, five commas are missing.

Action:

Add commas after the words/phrases " in many cases", "for instance",
"generally", and "therefore", and after the word "English" in the list in
the second sentence.
-- 

@	Page 22	Section 9.1 Internationalization data collections
technical

Problem:

The term "POSIX locales" is used twice in this section.  It is not clear if
National Locales (the subject of this TR) was meant or something else.

Action:

Use less ambiguous and more consistent wording.
-- 

@	Page 22	Section 9.1 Internationalization data collections
technical

Problem:

The third paragraph includes a reference to CEN ENV 12005.  This document
has been superseded by ISO/IEC 15897, which is also referenced.

Action:

Delete the words "and CEN ENV 12005".
-- 

@	Page 22	Section 10 Concept of charmap	editorial

Problem:

The verb encoding is used for the first of many times as a pluralized noun.

Action:

Place the word "encodings" within double quotes as illustrated.
-- 

@	Page 23	Section 10 Concept of charmap	editorial

Problem:

Comma usage

Action:

Add a comma after also in the last sentence of the last paragraph
-- 

@	Page 24	Section Annex A	technical

Problem:

An editor's note is used to replace the missing annex contents

Action:

Insert the appropriate contents in place of the note:
-- 

@	Page 24	Section Annex B	technical

Problem:

An editor's note is used to replace the missing annex contents

Action:

Insert the appropriate contents in place of the note:
-- 

@	Page 24	Section Annex C	editorial

Problem:

A code sample is provided in an inappropriate font.

Action:

Change the font to a more easily OCR-able mono-spaced font and explain the
font change in section 3.1.
-- 

@	Page 26	Section D.1	editorial

Problem:

Comma usage.

Action:

Add a comma after the phrase "From these problems" in the fourth paragraph
and after the word "Finally" in the fifth paragraph.
-- 

@	Page 27	Section D.1	editorial

Problem:

The headings on the table in the second paragraph do not line up with the
subsequent rows, nor do the rows line up with each other.

Action:

Correct the heading problem, use a mono-spaced font for the data, and
explain the font change in section 3.1.
-- 

@	Page 27	Section D.1	editorial

Problem:

Comma usage.

Action:

Add a comma after the word "Thus" in the fourth paragraph.
-- 

@	Page 27	Section D.2.2	editorial

Problem:

Incorrect English usage.

Action:

Insert the word "a" between "and" and "31-bit" in the first sentence.  Do
not capitalize the first letters of transformation format in the second
paragraph.  Start a new sentence after the phrase "ISO/IEC 10646-1 AM1:1996"
in the second paragraph.  Change the new following sentence from "but this
cannot" to "UTF-16 cannot".
-- 

@	Page 28	Section D.2.3	editorial

Problem:

Incorrect English usage.

Action:

Spell out the word three in "level 3 data".  Add a comma after the word
"Thus".
-- 

@	Page 28	Section D.3	technical

Problem:

Use of the verb shall.

Action:

Change shall to should.
-- 

@	Page 28	Section D.3.1	editorial

Problem:

Incorrect English usage.

Action:

Omit the word "exactly" in the phrase "exactly the same".
-- 

@	Page 29	Section D.3.4	editorial

Problem:

Incorrect punctuation.

Action:

Add a comma after the words/phrases "for example", "on the other hand", and
"therefore".  Replace the comma between systems and therefore in the second
paragraph with a semi-colon.
-- 

@	Page 29	Section D.4	editorial

Problem:

Comma usage.

Action:

Add a comma after the word furthermore in the first paragraph.
-- 

@	Page 30	Section D.5 Consequences	editorial

Problem:

Comma usage.

Action:

Add a comma after the words "In UTF-8" in the first bullet point.
-- 

@	Page 31	Section Annex E	technical

Problem:

The first paragraph includes a reference to ENV 12005.  This document has
been superseded by ISO/IEC 15897, which is also referenced.

Action:

Delete the words "/ ENV 12005".
-- 

@	Page 31	Section Annex E	editorial

Problem:

Presentation of an application form as inline text is confusing and does not
indicate that it is meant to be a document separate from this TR.

Action:

Adopt a more distinctive typographical convention to distinguish the
contents of the application form from the contents of this TR.  Boxing after
the first paragraph so that it appears as an image of a page is recommended.
Explain the change in section 3.1.
-- 

@	Page 33	Section Annex F	technical

Problem:

Text within square brackets has been used as a placeholder for the missing
Annex.

Action:

Replace the text within square brackets and the square brackets with the
actual Annex.
-- 

@	Page 33	Section Annex G	technical

Problem:

Text within square brackets has been used as a placeholder for the missing
Annex.

Action:

Replace the text within square brackets and the square brackets with the
actual Annex.
-- 

@	Page 33	Section Bibliography	technical

Problem:

Empty section.

Action:

Insert a bibliography or delete the section.
-- 

@	Page 33	Section Index	technical

Problem:

Empty section.

Action:

Insert an index.

Netherlands

1- The document should be proofread by an native English speaker
(two examples of 'problematic sentences' are given below).
Also, more attention should be given to interpunction ans lay-out.

2- The Foreword should indicate that this is a type-3 TR.

3- Introduction: remove 1st sentence between brackets: a TR has
no normative text.

4- Introduction: change "technical report" to "Technical Report"
(twice).

5- 1.1 Scope, 1st sentence (proofread example): replace "making"
by "defining"?

6- 1.1 Scope, 2nd sentence: replace sentence by something like:
"A POSIX National Profile provides requirements to make a POSIX
system suitable for a culture, by specifying the necessary POSIX
and national standards, together with their relevant options."

7- 2.1 References: strike "normative".

8- 2.2 Conformance: preferably: strike this section completely,
but at least remove any reference to 14252 here.

9- 3.2.1 Terms, definition of POSIX profile: replace "profile" by
"Profile" in header, strike 1st sentence (as it is a repetition of
the profile definition). Replace 2nd sentence by: "A POSIX Profile
is a Profile with one or more POSIX International Standards in its
set of base standards.". Add: "POSIX Application Environment Profiles
are described in TR 10000-3.".

10- 3.2.1 Terms, definition of POSIX National Locale: insert "POSIX"
in "... of a POSIX National Profile" (rationale: use full names in
definitions).

11- 5 Concept of National Profiles, 2nd sentence: "An Application
Environment Profile (AEP) is a set of base standards defining an
OSE, together with a selection of parameters and options of those
base standards, to support ... ". (rationale: see definition of Profile).

12- 5 Concept of National Profiles, 3rd paragraph: change
"TR 10000-2" to "TR 10000-1".

13- 5 Concept of National Profiles, conformance levels: change
"1 Strictly Conforming POSIX Application for POSIX AEP" to
"1 A POSIX Application that strictly conforms to a POSIX AEP",
and similar changes in this section.

14- 5.2 The relationship to Registration Authority": 15897 is an
IS, not a DIS (twice).

15- 5.3.3 Main elements of a National Profile definition, under (a):
is scope the right term here?

16- 5.5 Conformance requirements of POSIX National Profiles:
1st paragraph: change "compiles" to "complies".

17- 8.3 Monetary: what does the very last sentence indicate? Is it
necessary?

18- 8.5 Collating, 2nd paragraph: reformulate sentences 3-5
("A requirement is ...").

19- 8.5 Collating, 4th paragraph: Give a reference to the Danish
locale, where this collating approach can be seen.

20- 9.1 Internationalization data collections: make it clear that
the WG15 collection is informal and not approved.

United States

The U.S. vote is to disapprove for the following reasons:

Overall, this document is a long way from being finished. There are sections
missing (marked TBDs).There is inconsistent use of terminology. There are
conflicting definitions (both within this document and with other standards,
in particular POSIX.1). The formatting (type size, font, layout) is
inconsistent.

This document is unacceptable in its current state, and the USNB questions
whether it ever will be brought into an acceptable form because of the
extensive revisions required and the paucity of resources to carry out that
work.

Furthermore, the USNB is concerned that because of the very low level of
participation in the development of this document, there is little assurance
that it represents any degree of broad consensus within the IT community.