From mdeane@ANSI.org Tue Aug 28 20:09:10 2001 Received: from email1.ansi.org (mail.ansi.org [165.254.114.6] (may be forged)) by dkuug.dk (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA01905 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:09:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mdeane@ANSI.org) Received: by email1.ansi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:09:21 -0400 Message-ID: <2F81C8110D55D411882A0020356797B20110A938@email1.ansi.org> From: Matthew Deane To: "'SC 22 Distribution List'" Subject: SC 22 N 3299 - Summary of Voting on SC 22 N 3234, Letter Ballot f or ISO/IEC PDTR 14766 - Guide for POSIX National Profiles and National Lo cales Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:09:14 -0400 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 Programming languages, their environments and system software interfaces Secretariat: U.S.A. (ANSI) ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 N3299 TITLE: Summary of Voting on SC 22 N 3234, Letter Ballot for ISO/IEC PDTR 14766 - Guide for POSIX National Profiles and National Locales DATE ASSIGNED: 2001-08-28 SOURCE: SC 22 Secretariat BACKWARD POINTER: N/A DOCUMENT TYPE: Summary of Voting PROJECT NUMBER: 22.14766 STATUS: The results of this ballot are forwarded to SC 22/WG 15 for review, production of a disposition of comments report, and recommendation on further progress of the project. ACTION IDENTIFIER: ACT DUE DATE: DISTRIBUTION: Text CROSS REFERENCE: SC 22 N 3234 DISTRIBUTION FORM: Def Address reply to: ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 Secretariat Matt Deane ANSI 25 West 43rd Street New York, NY 10036 Telephone: (212) 642-4992 Fax: (212) 840-2298 Email: mdeane@ansi.org _______end of cover page, beginning of summary____________ SUMMARY OF VOTING ON Letter Ballot Reference No: SC22 N3234 Circulated by: JTC 1/SC22 Circulation Date: 2001-05-15 Closing Date: 2001-08-15 SUBJECT: Summary of Voting on SC 22 N 3234, Letter Ballot for ISO/IEC PDTR 14766 - Guide for POSIX National Profiles and National Locales ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The following responses have been received on the subject of approval: "P" Members supporting approval without comment 8 (Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Ireland, Republic of Korea, Norway, Russian Federation, United Kingdom) "P" Members supporting approval with comments 1 (Netherlands) "P" Members not supporting approval 2 (Canada, United States) "P" Members abstaining 1 (France) "P" Members not voting 9 (Austria, Belgium, Brazil, China, Egypt, Finland, Japan, Romania, Ukraine) ___________ end of summary, beginning on NB comments _____________ Canada @ Page 0 technical Problem: Documents are normally copyrighted by someone or even jointly by two someones, but two organizations cannot each claim separate and conflicting copyrights. Action: Refer to ISO/IEC and IEEE IPR staff for resolution. -- @ Page iv technical Problem: The title is "Guidelines for POSIX National Profiles and National Locales". The second paragraph omits the second "National" in both sentences. Action: Insert the word "National" (capitalized in the first instance, not capitalized in the second) before the word "Locales" in both sentences. -- @ Page v technical Problem: Italicised text within square brackets has been used as a placeholder for missing text (two occurrences). Action: Replace the text within square brackets and the square brackets with the actual material to be inserted (two occurrences). -- @ Page 1 Section 1.1 Scope editorial Problem: In both the first and second paragraphs, the verb "to make" is used with the object "POSIX National Profiles and National Locales". To make implies the manufacture of a good. The verb "to develop" would be more appropriate and consistent with the Introduction on page iv. Action: Change "making" in paragraphs one and two to "developing". -- @ Page 1 Section 1.1 Scope technical Problem: The third paragraph references a "POSIX locale format" yet this format is undefined. On Page 5, the phrase "POSIX localdef format" is used to indicate the same thing. Action: Change the reference to be consistent and define the term in section 3.2.1. -- @ Page 2 Section 2.1 References technical Problem: A reference is cited to ISO 8601:1988. ISO lists the current version as ISO 8601:2000. Action: Update the reference to the current version. -- @ Page 2 Section 2.1 References editorial Problem: The titles of ISO/IEC 10646-1:2000 and ISO/IEC 14651 differ from those listed on the ISO web site. Action: Update title with the correct official text as required. -- @ Page 2 Section 2.1 References editorial Problem: In the reference to ISO/IEC 8859 the string " ..," is used to represent some missing text. The correct string to use is an ellipsis - " ...,". Action: Replace ".." with "...". -- @ Page 3 Section 2.1 References technical Problem: A reference is cited to ISO/IEC TR 14262:1995. The correct reference is believed to be 14252:1996. Action: Correct the reference as required. -- @ Page 3 Section 2.1 References technical Problem: No reference is included to ISO/IEC 14651:2001 Information technology - International string ordering and comparison. Action: Add the reference. -- @ Page 4 Section 3.1 Conventions technical Problem: Text within square brackets has been used as a placeholder for the missing paragraph describing the specific editorial and typographical conventions used in the document. Action: Replace the text within square brackets and the square brackets with the actual description. -- @ Page 4 Section 3.2.1 Terms editorial Problem: The definition of the term "Profile" includes a reference to 10000-1. The format of the reference is unclear. Action: Replace the text "(10000-1)" with "(TR 10000-1)". -- @ Page 4 Section 3.2.1 Terms technical Problem: The distinction between a "Profile", a "POSIX profile", and a "POSIX National Profile" is not clear, particularly since "a profile" is defined under both the heading "Profile" and "POSIX profile" and a "POSIX National Profile" is then defined as a "POSIX profile". Action: Clarify the wording and the distinction among each of these terms. -- @ Page 5 Section 3.2.1 Terms technical Problem: The term "POSIX National Locale" is used with the definition of a "National Locale". Action: Change the heading from "POSIX National Locale" to just "National Locale". -- @ Page 5 Section 3.2.1 Terms technical Problem: The phrase "National Standards Profile" is defined and given the acronym NSP. In the Acronyms and Abbreviations section, NSP is defined as a National Standards Profile. Nowhere else in the document is either the phrase "National Standards Profile" or the acronym NSP used. Therefore, it was not necessary to define them. Action: Remove "National Standards Profile" from the Terms section and remove NSP from the Acronyms and Abbreviations section. -- @ Page 5 Section 3.2.1 Terms technical Problem: The distinction between a "locale", a "POSIX locale", a "National Locale", and a "POSIX National Locale" is not clear. Action: Clarify the wording and the distinction among each of these terms. -- @ Page 6 Section 3.2.1 Terms technical Problem: Text within square brackets has been used as a placeholder for the missing definition of localdef. Action: Replace the text within square brackets and the square brackets with the actual definition. -- @ Page 6 Section 3.2.1 Terms editorial Problem: The definition of the term "International Standardized Profile" includes a reference to 10000-1. The format of the reference is unclear. Action: Replace the text "(10000-1)" with "(TR 10000-1)". -- @ Page 6 Section 3.2.2 Acronyms and Abbreviations editorial Problem: Significant words in section titles should be capitalized, the word "abbreviations" in the section title in not capitalized. Action: Capitalize the first letter A in the word abbreviations in the title. -- @ Page 6 Section 3.2.2 Acronyms and Abbreviations technical Problem: The acronym NSP is not used elsewhere in the document and should be removed. Action: Remove the acronym NSP and its definition. -- @ Page 8 Section 5 Concept of National Profiles editorial Problem: The word thus in the last sentence of the third paragraph of this section should be set off from the rest of the sentence by a comma. Action: Change "Thus International Standardized Profiles" to "Thus, International Standardized Profiles". -- @ Page 9 Section 5 Concept of National Profiles editorial Problem: The sentence "An application that requires not only specific POSIX related parameters and options but also other ISO/IEC standards and their international profiles." is poorly phrased. Action: Change to "An application that requires both specific POSIX related parameters and options and other ISO/IEC standards and their international profiles. -- @ Page 10 Section 5.1 The relationship to base standards technical Problem: On page 4, it is stated that this TR "contains no mandatory requirements". Therefore the use of the verbs shall and must is inappropriate and should be replaced by the verbs should and may. Action: In the third paragraph, replace the first shall with should and the second shall with may. -- @ Page 10 Section 5.2 The relationship to Registration Authority technical Problem: Paragraph 2 references ISO/IEC DIS 15897, while section 2.1 References lists ISO/IEC 15897:1999. Action: Update the reference on page 10. -- @ Page 10 Section 5.2 The relationship to Registration Authority technical Problem: Paragraph 2 states that 15897 "provides registration mechanisms for POSIX profiles, POSIX locales", etc. This TR is a guide to POSIX National Profiles and National Locales. It has been raised as an objection elsewhere that there is substantial confusion of the terms "POSIX", "National", "Profile" and "Locale" when used singly or in combination to refer to a profile or a locale. Action: Define more specifically what 15897 is intended to provide a registration mechanism for and how that relates to this TR. -- @ Page 11 Section 5.2 The relationship to Registration Authority editorial Problem: (b), (c), and (d) in the final paragraph of this section are indented inappropriately. Action: Correct the indentation to match (a). -- @ Page 11 Section 5.3.2 Principles of National Profile Content technical Problem: In the second paragraph the verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 11 Section 5.3.3 Main elements of a National Profile definition technical Problem: In the first paragraph the verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 13 Section 5.4 Conformance Testing editorial Problem: The first sentence of the second paragraph beginning "The system is then "exercised"" is poorly worded. Action: Replace the phrase "through the use of" with the word "using". -- @ Page 13 Section 5.5 Conformance requirements of POSIX National Profiles technical Problem: In the second paragraph the verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 14 Section 5.5 Conformance requirements of POSIX National Profiles technical Problem: In the second paragraph the verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 14 Section 5.5 Conformance requirements of POSIX National Profiles editorial Problem: The second paragraph is poorly worded. Action: Replace the phrase "and also" with the word "and". -- @ Page 14 Section 5.5 Conformance requirements of POSIX National Profiles technical Problem: In the third paragraph the verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 14 Section 5.6.1 General technical Problem: In the third paragraph the verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 14 Section 5.6.2 Requirements technical Problem: In the first paragraph the verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 15 Section 5.8 POSIX Application Conformance for National Profiles technical Problem: The verb shall is used twice. Action: Change shall to should (two instances). -- @ Page 15 Section 5.8.1 Conforming POSIX Application technical Problem: The verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 15 Section 5.8.2 Conforming POSIX Application Using Extensions technical Problem: The verb shall is used twice. Action: Change shall to should (two instances). -- @ Page 16 Section 6 Contents of National Profile editorial Problem: Section title does not read well. Action: Change title to "Contents of a POSIX National Profile". -- @ Page 16 Section 6 Contents of National Profile technical Problem: The verb shall is used 28 times and the verb must is used once. Action: Change every occurrence of shall to should and every occurrence of must to may. -- @ Page 16 Section 6 Contents of National Profile technical Problem: Page 4 states that this TR "contains no mandatory requirements". Yet, the phrase "is mandatory" is used 18 times in this section. Action: Remove all mandatory requirements. -- @ Page 16 Section 6 Contents of National Profile editorial Problem: It is not clear why the numbering reverts to one within this section. Action: Adopt a more distinctive typographical convention to distinguish the contents of a POSIX National Profile from the contents of this TR. Boxing Section 6 after the first paragraph so that it appears as a series of images of pages is recommended. Explain the change in section 3.1. -- @ Page 16 Section 6 Contents of National Profile technical Problem: The fourth last paragraph states "when an official registration mechanism is established". This conflicts with section 5.2 The relationship to Registration Authority, which claims that such a mechanism has been established. Action: Correct to resolve the conflict. -- @ Page 18 Section 6 Contents of National Profile editorial Problem: Section 7.4 Profile for OSI is followed by section 7.4 Media. Action: Renumber the second section 7.4 to 7.5. -- @ Page 19 Section 7 Concept of POSIX National Locales technical Problem: This is another instance of the confusion between National Locales and POSIX National Locales. Action: Remove the word "POSIX" in the section title and the first sentence. -- @ Page 19 Section 7 Concept of POSIX National Locales editorial Problem: Comma usage. Action: Add a comma after "In this way" in the second sentence of the first paragraph. -- @ Page 19 Section 7 Concept of POSIX National Locales technical Problem: ISO/IEC 9945-2 does not include a Norwegian locale. Action: Correct the reference. -- @ Page 19 Section 8 Contents of National Locale editorial Problem: Section title does not read well. Action: Change title to "Contents of a National Locale". -- @ Page 19 Section 8 Contents of National Locale technical Problem: The verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 19 Section 8.3 Monetary technical Problem: The verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 20 Section 8.3 Monetary technical Problem: The verb shall is used. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 20 Section 8.3 Monetary editorial Problem: The phrase "the 4th character" is used incorrectly. Action: Change "4th" to "fourth". -- @ Page 20 Section 8.4 Time editorial Problem: In the second paragraph, a comma is missing after the second last item in the list. Action: Add a comma after file listings. -- @ Page 20 Section 8.5 collating editorial Problem: In the first paragraph, Soundex is a proper noun and the verb transcripted is used as an adjective. In the second and third paragraphs, commas are missing. Action: Capitalize the initial S in Soundex. Place the word "transcripted" within double quotes as illustrated. Add a comma after the phrase "if two strings are different" in the second paragraph and after the word "Instead" in the second sentence of the third paragraph. -- @ Page 21 Section 8.5 Collating editorial Problem: In the second paragraph the phrases "the 4 level scheme" and "as the Canadians do" are used inappropriately. Action: Spell out the word four in place of the digit 4 and replace "as the Canadians do" with "as Canada does". -- @ Page 21 Section 8.5 Collating editorial Problem: The first letter of the Cyrillic alphabet is represented incorrectly in English as the letter "a". Action: Change the letter a in the sequence "a be ve ghe" to "ah be ve ghe". -- @ Page 21 Section 8.5 Collating technical Problem: ISO/IEC FDIS 14651 is referenced (incorrectly) and is not included in section 2.1 References. Action: Update the reference to ISO/IEC 14651:2001 and include a complete reference in section 2. -- @ Page 22 Section 9 Using locale templates editorial Problem: In the last two paragraphs of the section, five commas are missing. Action: Add commas after the words/phrases " in many cases", "for instance", "generally", and "therefore", and after the word "English" in the list in the second sentence. -- @ Page 22 Section 9.1 Internationalization data collections technical Problem: The term "POSIX locales" is used twice in this section. It is not clear if National Locales (the subject of this TR) was meant or something else. Action: Use less ambiguous and more consistent wording. -- @ Page 22 Section 9.1 Internationalization data collections technical Problem: The third paragraph includes a reference to CEN ENV 12005. This document has been superseded by ISO/IEC 15897, which is also referenced. Action: Delete the words "and CEN ENV 12005". -- @ Page 22 Section 10 Concept of charmap editorial Problem: The verb encoding is used for the first of many times as a pluralized noun. Action: Place the word "encodings" within double quotes as illustrated. -- @ Page 23 Section 10 Concept of charmap editorial Problem: Comma usage Action: Add a comma after also in the last sentence of the last paragraph -- @ Page 24 Section Annex A technical Problem: An editor's note is used to replace the missing annex contents Action: Insert the appropriate contents in place of the note: -- @ Page 24 Section Annex B technical Problem: An editor's note is used to replace the missing annex contents Action: Insert the appropriate contents in place of the note: -- @ Page 24 Section Annex C editorial Problem: A code sample is provided in an inappropriate font. Action: Change the font to a more easily OCR-able mono-spaced font and explain the font change in section 3.1. -- @ Page 26 Section D.1 editorial Problem: Comma usage. Action: Add a comma after the phrase "From these problems" in the fourth paragraph and after the word "Finally" in the fifth paragraph. -- @ Page 27 Section D.1 editorial Problem: The headings on the table in the second paragraph do not line up with the subsequent rows, nor do the rows line up with each other. Action: Correct the heading problem, use a mono-spaced font for the data, and explain the font change in section 3.1. -- @ Page 27 Section D.1 editorial Problem: Comma usage. Action: Add a comma after the word "Thus" in the fourth paragraph. -- @ Page 27 Section D.2.2 editorial Problem: Incorrect English usage. Action: Insert the word "a" between "and" and "31-bit" in the first sentence. Do not capitalize the first letters of transformation format in the second paragraph. Start a new sentence after the phrase "ISO/IEC 10646-1 AM1:1996" in the second paragraph. Change the new following sentence from "but this cannot" to "UTF-16 cannot". -- @ Page 28 Section D.2.3 editorial Problem: Incorrect English usage. Action: Spell out the word three in "level 3 data". Add a comma after the word "Thus". -- @ Page 28 Section D.3 technical Problem: Use of the verb shall. Action: Change shall to should. -- @ Page 28 Section D.3.1 editorial Problem: Incorrect English usage. Action: Omit the word "exactly" in the phrase "exactly the same". -- @ Page 29 Section D.3.4 editorial Problem: Incorrect punctuation. Action: Add a comma after the words/phrases "for example", "on the other hand", and "therefore". Replace the comma between systems and therefore in the second paragraph with a semi-colon. -- @ Page 29 Section D.4 editorial Problem: Comma usage. Action: Add a comma after the word furthermore in the first paragraph. -- @ Page 30 Section D.5 Consequences editorial Problem: Comma usage. Action: Add a comma after the words "In UTF-8" in the first bullet point. -- @ Page 31 Section Annex E technical Problem: The first paragraph includes a reference to ENV 12005. This document has been superseded by ISO/IEC 15897, which is also referenced. Action: Delete the words "/ ENV 12005". -- @ Page 31 Section Annex E editorial Problem: Presentation of an application form as inline text is confusing and does not indicate that it is meant to be a document separate from this TR. Action: Adopt a more distinctive typographical convention to distinguish the contents of the application form from the contents of this TR. Boxing after the first paragraph so that it appears as an image of a page is recommended. Explain the change in section 3.1. -- @ Page 33 Section Annex F technical Problem: Text within square brackets has been used as a placeholder for the missing Annex. Action: Replace the text within square brackets and the square brackets with the actual Annex. -- @ Page 33 Section Annex G technical Problem: Text within square brackets has been used as a placeholder for the missing Annex. Action: Replace the text within square brackets and the square brackets with the actual Annex. -- @ Page 33 Section Bibliography technical Problem: Empty section. Action: Insert a bibliography or delete the section. -- @ Page 33 Section Index technical Problem: Empty section. Action: Insert an index. Netherlands 1- The document should be proofread by an native English speaker (two examples of 'problematic sentences' are given below). Also, more attention should be given to interpunction ans lay-out. 2- The Foreword should indicate that this is a type-3 TR. 3- Introduction: remove 1st sentence between brackets: a TR has no normative text. 4- Introduction: change "technical report" to "Technical Report" (twice). 5- 1.1 Scope, 1st sentence (proofread example): replace "making" by "defining"? 6- 1.1 Scope, 2nd sentence: replace sentence by something like: "A POSIX National Profile provides requirements to make a POSIX system suitable for a culture, by specifying the necessary POSIX and national standards, together with their relevant options." 7- 2.1 References: strike "normative". 8- 2.2 Conformance: preferably: strike this section completely, but at least remove any reference to 14252 here. 9- 3.2.1 Terms, definition of POSIX profile: replace "profile" by "Profile" in header, strike 1st sentence (as it is a repetition of the profile definition). Replace 2nd sentence by: "A POSIX Profile is a Profile with one or more POSIX International Standards in its set of base standards.". Add: "POSIX Application Environment Profiles are described in TR 10000-3.". 10- 3.2.1 Terms, definition of POSIX National Locale: insert "POSIX" in "... of a POSIX National Profile" (rationale: use full names in definitions). 11- 5 Concept of National Profiles, 2nd sentence: "An Application Environment Profile (AEP) is a set of base standards defining an OSE, together with a selection of parameters and options of those base standards, to support ... ". (rationale: see definition of Profile). 12- 5 Concept of National Profiles, 3rd paragraph: change "TR 10000-2" to "TR 10000-1". 13- 5 Concept of National Profiles, conformance levels: change "1 Strictly Conforming POSIX Application for POSIX AEP" to "1 A POSIX Application that strictly conforms to a POSIX AEP", and similar changes in this section. 14- 5.2 The relationship to Registration Authority": 15897 is an IS, not a DIS (twice). 15- 5.3.3 Main elements of a National Profile definition, under (a): is scope the right term here? 16- 5.5 Conformance requirements of POSIX National Profiles: 1st paragraph: change "compiles" to "complies". 17- 8.3 Monetary: what does the very last sentence indicate? Is it necessary? 18- 8.5 Collating, 2nd paragraph: reformulate sentences 3-5 ("A requirement is ..."). 19- 8.5 Collating, 4th paragraph: Give a reference to the Danish locale, where this collating approach can be seen. 20- 9.1 Internationalization data collections: make it clear that the WG15 collection is informal and not approved. United States The U.S. vote is to disapprove for the following reasons: Overall, this document is a long way from being finished. There are sections missing (marked TBDs).There is inconsistent use of terminology. There are conflicting definitions (both within this document and with other standards, in particular POSIX.1). The formatting (type size, font, layout) is inconsistent. This document is unacceptable in its current state, and the USNB questions whether it ever will be brought into an acceptable form because of the extensive revisions required and the paucity of resources to carry out that work. Furthermore, the USNB is concerned that because of the very low level of participation in the development of this document, there is little assurance that it represents any degree of broad consensus within the IT community.