From owner-sc35wg2+sc35wg2-domo2=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Thu Jan 30 15:49:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc35wg2-domo2 Delivered-To: sc35wg2-domo2@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id BA3673567ED; Thu, 30 Jan 2014 15:49:58 +0100 (CET) Delivered-To: sc35wg2@open-std.org Received: from smtp.usask.ca (smtp.usask.ca [128.233.192.40]) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDEC235672F; Thu, 30 Jan 2014 15:49:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from conversion-daemon.usask.ca by usask.ca (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.3-11.01 64bit (built Sep 1 2009)) id <0N0700400YFP4Q00@usask.ca>; Thu, 30 Jan 2014 08:49:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAMPUSCAS3.usask.ca (campuscas3.usask.ca [128.233.194.194]) by usask.ca (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.3-11.01 64bit (built Sep 1 2009)) with ESMTPS id <0N0700HRUYJ61970@usask.ca>; Thu, 30 Jan 2014 08:49:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAMPUSMB3.usask.ca ([fe80::e187:90d:c433:4ada]) by CAMPUSCAS3.usask.ca ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 30 Jan 2014 08:49:54 -0600 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 14:49:54 +0000 From: "Carter, James" Subject: RE: (SC35WG4.87) (SC35WG2.20) (SC35WG1.507) JTC1/SC35 meeting - Barcelona, week of 10 February 2014 In-reply-to: <20140130113040.6E6D23583BB@www.open-std.org> X-Originating-IP: [174.2.186.53] To: Khalid CHOUKRI , ALB , "yoshikazu-seki@aist.go.jp" , "jeeink@gmail.com" , "monique.mai@orange.com" , "keld@keldix.com" , "thibault.grouas@culture.gouv.fr" Cc: "sc35wg1@open-std.org" , "philippe.magnabosco@afnor.org" , mouradi amelle , "sc35wg2@open-std.org" , "sc35wg4@open-std.org" , "sc35wg6@open-std.org" , "sc35wg8@open-std.org" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_XJ4zs/isCnOY8mvQib+gsg)" Content-language: en-GB Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Thread-topic: (SC35WG4.87) (SC35WG2.20) (SC35WG1.507) JTC1/SC35 meeting - Barcelona, week of 10 February 2014 Thread-index: AQHPHa63/JHrpT+fhEWngvxrP6bL0ZqdWSKV X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: References: <20140128175022.50540358518@www.open-std.org> <20140130113040.6E6D23583BB@www.open-std.org> Sender: owner-sc35wg2@open-std.org Precedence: bulk --Boundary_(ID_XJ4zs/isCnOY8mvQib+gsg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE How is Philippe going to circulate a "a general schedule of the meeti= ngs of the WGs 1,2,4,6,7)," when there has been NO consultation with = the WG convenors? In order to have SC35 work efficiently it is essential that the needs= of the WGs be considered. Regards, Jim ________________________________ =46rom: owner-sc35wg4@open-std.org [owner-sc35wg4@open-std.org] on be= half of Khalid CHOUKRI [choukri@elda.org] Sent: 30 January 2014 05:30 To: ALB; yoshikazu-seki@aist.go.jp; jeeink@gmail.com; monique.mai@ora= nge.com; keld@keldix.com; Carter, James; thibault.grouas@culture.gouv= .fr Cc: sc35wg1@open-std.org; philippe.magnabosco@afnor.org; mouradi amel= le; sc35wg2@open-std.org; sc35wg4@open-std.org; sc35wg6@open-std.org;= sc35wg8@open-std.org Subject: (SC35WG4.87) (SC35WG2.20) (SC35WG1.507) JTC1/SC35 meeting - = Barcelona, week of 10 February 2014 Hi Alain, I am responding to this email , now that we got more input from our s= ecretariat, ALB wrote, On 28/01/2014 15:57: Le 2014-01-28 =E0 08:32, Khalid CHOUKRI a =E9crit : Well I am surprised to see that (and hope this is only WG1!) , let us= discuss it again and see how to move forward. [Alain] So far I have seen unanimity of those who expressed their vi= ews from other WGs as well (Seki San, Jim, Monique, Karl, Keld, etc.)= . Nobody else said the view I expressed on GOM was not the best and m= ost efficient one, and the one understood in Saskatoon too at our inf= ornal meeting. That is why I say it is certainly only a misunderstand= ing between those who knew GOMs and you, Khalid (no offence intended,= of course, I'm just in search of the best). Btw GOM is a concept inv= ented by AFNOR at the time (for meetings when the secretary could not= be present). It pleased everybody. It seems it still pleases. I am happy to see that we all targeting the same objective, though we= have different approaches to achieve it. I do not think there was an= y misunderstanding about the operations of the WGs, I have been brief= ed by Yves and Philippe but yo are right (and I am not offended, I ap= preciate your fair and friendly involvement in this discussion), I kn= ow that I have so much to learn. But this does not (should not) preve= nt us from thinking of our approaches and how to improve our processe= s. I have seen that most of the work is done on site and I would like to= see more of this done during the periods between meetings via email,= skype, and if necessary wikis. I attended the JTC1 meeting last November and was surprised to see th= at most of the SCs meet once a year (or even less), many of their WGs= members meet at conferences for a day or two. Given Philippe's remarks , I suggest that we go ahead with the WGs me= etings (I have asked Philippe to circulate a general schedule of the = meetings of the WGs 1,2,4,6,7), and let us have a short meeting on Mo= nday morning all together to plan the activities of the week. best regards Khalid Some other remarks: 1) not all P-members are represented at Plenaries with a capital P, u= nfortunately. There is no reason to be more severe concerning this at= resolution plenaries with a small p. In general, except for one or 2= exceptions, member bodies really participating in making projects at= tend all meetings (that said without diminishing the importance of ot= hers who still show their solidarity in the voting process of documen= ts to be published, which is very important and the name of the game = in international standards). 2) The notion of quorum is important (both at Plenaries and "plenarie= s" [GOMs]). Resolutions taken by GOMs should be as executory as those= taken at Plenaries because there is a quorum (without letter ballot = to approve those resolutions again). Whether these resolutions are ap= proved in a GOM or in a single WG should not matter. In other SCs, ev= en when there is an interim meeting (no Plenary), resolutions of WGs = are executory immediately ans are not approved twice in a further let= ter ballot (case in point : JTC1/SC2, in which I am active both as co= nvernor and editor). 3) GOMs just assures SC35 coherence, as there are multiple projects t= hat inter-relates WGs (which may be not the case in other SCs). It is= essential to have constant coherence, all year round. This GOM proce= ss does not violate any ISO or IEC rule to my nowledge (on the contra= ry, it improves efficience), it is an internal process (checked by AF= NOR at the time). It also ensures there is no dispersion, and should = be an asset more to ensure that nothing is forgotten, Dividing SC35 f= urther would not be a good idea, it would be detrimental to coherence= , I'm convinced about this. Alain --- Ce courrier =E9lectronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malvei= llant parce que la protection avast! Antivirus est active. http://www.avast.com -- Khalid Choukri ELRA General secretary & ELDA CEO email: choukri@elda.org; Web: www.elra.info www.elda.org Tel. +33 1 43 13 33 33 - Fax. +33 1 43 13 33 30 *************************************************** ** Info on LREC: www.lrec-conf.org **************************************************** --Boundary_(ID_XJ4zs/isCnOY8mvQib+gsg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
How is Philippe going to circulate a "a general sch= edule of the meetings of the WGs 1,2,4,6,7)," when there has bee= n NO consultation with the WG convenors?

In order to have SC35 work efficiently it is essential that the needs= of the WGs be considered.

Regards, Jim
From: owner-sc35wg4@open-std.= org [owner-sc35wg4@open-std.org] on behalf of Khalid CHOUKRI [choukri= @elda.org]
Sent: 30 January 2014 05:30
To: ALB; yoshikazu-seki@aist.go.jp; jeeink@gmail.com; monique.= mai@orange.com; keld@keldix.com; Carter, James; thibault.grouas@cultu= re.gouv.fr
Cc: sc35wg1@open-std.org; philippe.magnabosco@afnor.org; moura= di amelle; sc35wg2@open-std.org; sc35wg4@open-std.org; sc35wg6@open-s= td.org; sc35wg8@open-std.org
Subject: (SC35WG4.87) (SC35WG2.20) (SC35WG1.507) JTC1/SC35 mee= ting - Barcelona, week of 10 February 2014

Hi Alain,
I am responding to this email , now that we got more input from our s= ecretariat,
ALB wrote, On 28/01/2014 15:57:
Le 2014-01-28 =E0 08:32, Khalid CHOUKRI a = =E9crit :
Well I am surprised to see that (and hope t= his is only WG1!) , let us discuss it again and see how to move forwa= rd.

[Alain]  So far I have seen unanimity of those who expressed the= ir views from other WGs as well (Seki San, Jim, Monique, Karl, Keld, = etc.). Nobody else said the view I expressed on GOM was not the best = and most efficient one, and the one understood in Saskatoon too at our infornal meeting. That is why I say it is certainly only = a misunderstanding between those who knew GOMs and you, Khalid (no of= fence intended, of course, I'm just in search of the best). Btw GOM i= s a concept invented by AFNOR at the time (for meetings when the secretary could not be present). It pleased everybody. It s= eems it still pleases.

I am happy to see that we all targeting the same objective, though we= have different approaches to achieve it. I do not think there was an= y misunderstanding about the operations of the WGs, I have been brief= ed by Yves and Philippe but yo are right (and I am not offended, I appreciate your fair and friendly involvement in thi= s discussion), I know that I have so much to learn. But this does not= (should not) prevent us from thinking of our approaches and how to i= mprove our processes.

I have seen that most of the work is done on site and I would like to= see more of this done during the periods between meetings via email,= skype, and if necessary wikis.
I attended the JTC1 meeting last November and was surprised to see th= at most of the SCs meet once a year (or even less), many of their WGs= members  meet at conferences for a day or two.


Given Philippe's remarks , I suggest that we go ahead with the WGs me= etings (I have asked Philippe to circulate a general schedule of the = meetings of the WGs 1,2,4,6,7), and let us have a short meeting on Mo= nday morning all together to plan the activities of the week.


best regards

Khalid



   Some other remarks:

1) not all P-members are represented at Plenaries with a capital P, u= nfortunately. There is no reason to be more severe concerning this at= resolution plenaries with a small p. In general, except for one or 2= exceptions, member bodies really participating in making projects attend all meetings (that said without diminishing t= he importance of others who still show their solidarity in the voting= process of documents to be published, which is very important and th= e name of the game in international standards).

2) The notion of quorum is important (both at Plenaries and "ple= naries" [GOMs]). Resolutions taken by GOMs should be as executor= y as those taken at Plenaries because there is a quorum (without lett= er ballot to approve those resolutions again). Whether these resolutions are approved in a GOM or in a single WG should not matte= r. In other SCs, even when there is an interim meeting (no Plenary), = resolutions of WGs are executory immediately ans are not approved twi= ce in a further letter ballot (case in point : JTC1/SC2, in which I am active both as convernor and editor).

3) GOMs just assures SC35 coherence, as there are multiple projects t= hat inter-relates WGs (which may be not the case in other SCs). It is= essential to have constant coherence, all year round. This GOM proce= ss does not violate any ISO or IEC rule to my nowledge (on the contrary, it improves efficience), it is an internal process= (checked by AFNOR at the time). It also ensures there is no dispersi= on, and should be an asset more to ensure that nothing is forgotten, = Dividing SC35 further would not be a good idea, it would be detrimental to coherence, I'm convinced about this.

Alain
---
Ce courrier =E9lectronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malvei= llant parce que la protection avast! Antivirus est active.
http://www.avast.com


--

Khalid Choukri
ELRA General secretary & ELDA CEO
email: choukri@elda.org;
Web: www.elra.info www.elda.org
Tel. +33 1 43 13 33 33 - Fax. +33 1 43 13 33 30

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** Info on LREC: www.lrec-conf.org
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